4 Tips to Using Backlinks of Angela in a Better Way

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70 thoughts on “4 Tips to Using Backlinks of Angela in a Better Way

  1. Hey there this is really good information. I have been backlink building with Paul and Angela's packets as well as Terry kyle. I just have one comment. I have found that it is ok to link to sites not in your niche as long as you fill out the profile and don't post comments. I do make comments on forums that are related to my niche. My site currently dances between position 7 and 11 creeping it's way to number 1 as it was at 6 for awhile today. I also try to make a connection some way with the forum topic in my bio. For example if the forum is about fishing I talk in my bio about my son as he loves to go fishing. It helps me keep my links.

  2. >>I have found that it is ok to link to sites not in your niche as long as you fill out the profile and don’t post comments

    Yes, SEO-wise, relevancy does not matter as I said! The question remains though: does not posting a comment help in your profile visibility? If Google cannot find your profile URL then the backlinks you drop there make little sense. Some sites are well optimized for SEO but others are not! :)

    My personal experience shows that profiles can get deleted even if you don't post comments; such deletions are few anyway. If it were just you and me doing it, it would not have raised eyebrows. But spammers also put links on these sites, often sites that are related to gambling, porn, viagra and such other stuff that no one likes to link to. The case is made worse when thieves steal Angela's packets and do the same. Someone on DP even found out a "legal way" to get all backlinks of Angela and Paul for free! :)

  3. I do agree that the spammers out there make it hard for the honest people. You make a good point about the profile url's getting picked up by google. It is a little slow however I have been reading a little on doing something called cascading. It is new to me so I am just learning. Do you have any insight on that subject? If so, I would love to find out more. Thanks Susan

  4. >>Do you have any insight on that subject? If so, I would love to find out more.

    Nope :( In fact. *I* would like to learn about that from you :)

    What does cascading involve?

  5. Well I have just read about it today so I hope I am explaining it right. If you have a packet from Paul or Angela you can start with doing one profile in the normal fashion. Then with your next site that you set up a profile on you are to add the first profile as a link as well. You do this in groups of 5 or 6 sites at a time. So when google finds you on one of those sites it will crawl the other profile links you have listed therefore google finds your backlinks faster. I haven't tried doing this as I am a little unsure if it is considered black hat?? Have you heard of or know Terry Kyle? He speaks of it in his packet of backlinks. I want to find out more before I try it as I don't want to do something I shouldn't do.

    1. Hi Susan,

      I hope I understand it like this:

      Let us say that you create a Google profile and add links to it, and say the profile links are dofollow (actually they are now nofollow). Then you create a profile at Yahoo profiles and link to your Google profile from the Yahoo profile, right?

      SEO-wise, I don't think it is black hat.

      However, if the sites are not related to each other, don't you think it may be looked upon as spamming? If indeed the other site, say Google, sees you as a spammer, and if it deletes your profile, where do you stand?

      Or say, that the two sites are indeed related thematically and so you don’t have any worry of profile deletion. But what if the site you are linking to (Google profile) suddenly makes the "public" profile "private" (it has happened to me on a few occasions), or completely shuts down business?

      Now look at this: you create profiles at both sites, and say one of them deletes your profile for some reason. But if the other one keeps your profile, then at least you get backlinks from that site? Am I going in the right direction? Let me know :)

      Instead of being worried about Google's constantly changing algo, I would like to make sure I am not building a house of cards! :)

      I think I have that book of Terry you are talking about. It is called 750 backlinks or something like that, right?

      Arindam

      P.S. Susan is a far better name than "lose belly fat" ;)

  6. Yes, that is the book. Yes the way you explain it sounds spot on. I also thought it would seem a bit spammy with tons of links to random forum profiles. See this is why you are the SEO guy and I am the lose weight girl, lol. I am learning about SEO though with the help from people like you ;)

    1. >>See this is why you are the SEO guy and I am the lose weight girl, lol.

      LOL. I talked more commonsense than SEO :D

      I do stand by my earlier suggestion that Susan is a better name than "lose weight girl" ;)

  7. Arindam,
    Kudos to a well thought out post. Most of what you posted about I agree with but not all.
    I do think you have a great point about making your profile authentic. This is something I have not thought about and never put into practice. That changes today. Tonight I will sit down and write out a few generic profiles, maybe so I can tweak them a little based on the site relevency as best as possible. If your going to go to all the trouble of creating backlinks you might as well spend a few minutes and do it right. I wish you had posted this about a month ago.

    Scott

  8. First of all, I'm a newbie ... Two weeks ago I didn't know what banklinks were. Thanks for all the good advice about backlinks! :) Is it better to have a few related backlinks and be active in the forums than link back to 80 sites (Angela's and Paul's backlinks) and not be active? It doesn't really feel right either to link back to pages that aren't interested to me and my business. Cascading seems interesting, and I guess it's time to start being active in the forums. :)

  9. >>I wish you had posted this about a month ago.

    Hi Scott,

    You can say that again! :)

    In fact I really wish I could know about this stuff a long ago; if I had built links this way, most of them would have stayed intact :(

    BTW, since you commented on "authentic profile", I just had an idea and updated that part a bit, for those who work in non-IM niches and use pen names ;)

    I have also added a few links to bio pages I personally like. I hope you find them useful :)

  10. >>Is it better to have a few related backlinks and be active in the forums than link back to 80 sites (Angela’s and Paul’s backlinks) and not be active?

    Yeah! :) But don't ignore the packets entirely either! They may as well contain some links directly related to your niche! In fact I have found a couple of weight loss sites in her earlier packets. That is why I am still their subscriber :)

    >>I guess it’s time to start being active in the forums.

    And here too, on my blog! ;)

  11. I made a really long post and in the process used 'A)' and '2)' to make two points.

    I realized that looks funny and edited the '2)' to 'B)'

    Then I resubmitted and a box popped up and said my edited post was spam! And disappeared.

    That was aggravating. :|

  12. Hey Arindam,

    Excellent article.

    I am finding that backlinking can be extremely hit or miss. It's been great to get Angela's packets and it has been helping my rankings a lot but I am learning that you need to do things all over the place to get a natural spread on Google.

    I'll definitely consider linking my bio in future too, it's a great idea.

    Thanks,
    Forest.

  13. I love this blog. I have 2 comments, one, I always use my real name and real info in any profiles I have in various places. (Recently, though in the past I did have an alias) Why?

    A) I noticed that is what the people that make really big money on the net do and

    B) It makes it so much easier to remember the information. Lol.

    Relevancy - There are many people that have more than one profitable passion with more than one site on the web. And no matter what your niche(s), there are certain subjects that would interest any and every one interested in promoting their site(s); SEO, PPC (for some), usability, findability and web structure design & more. Though you might post on an SEO web, your profile would not lead to a 'relevant' site unless you happen to have one on SEO.

    I too am a newbie. Only recently have I decided the web holds a possibility of an income that can keep me from having to rely on disability (car accident.) I have spent about 6 months learning and have recently begun 'doing'. The learning has been like trying to get a BA (BS?) degree in 19 majors in 6 months; (or as Perry Marshall likes to say, 'it is like drinking from a fire-hose!').

    There is so much to a well thought out site from having correct. meaningful and interesting information on your niche site to all the things it takes to make that site successful like design, SEO, marketing, psychology of commercial intent, etc, etc, etc.

    (By marketing, I don't mean Madison Avenue marketing, where they get salary and bonuses with no accountability, I mean marketing as in research and deployment of ethical tactics that bring things that are wanted or needed to the people who want and need them.)

    There is another 16 (or more) huge pieces of the puzzle, each one practically able to be a college major subject in it's own right. So relevancy can be a very subjective thing.

    A fishing site that recommends using corn to catch bass posting on a site about corn DNA altering may seem irrelevant to a causal on-looker that doesn't have all the facts. So while dropping ones link willy-nilly is definably a spammy technique, judging whether a person is being spammy or not almost has to be left to each person's conscience.

    Mark

    PS- I sometimes put a link to a site that makes no income for me in a blog profile! (I have 4 or more sites I have had a long time, before the accident, where making money wasn't and isn't the purpose of the site. In these cases, they are like 'give back' sites. At least 2 give away huge amounts of desirable stuff. And in at least one case is information on a not for profit help topic.)

  14. I get a bad feeling about these methods of building backlinks.

    I think Google has told us many times (through people like Matt Cutts and other reputable and experienced folks) not to try to fool the search engine. I feel that Google will discover a way to unearth activities that are used simply to spam the search engines. These activities may have quick results but I don't think they will have lasting impact.

    My 2 cents. Worth what you paid for it. ;)

  15. Great post! One of the most comprehensive ones I've seen offering some real helpful backlink tips so thanks for sharing! I subscribe to Angela's backlinks and I've heard some of people now complain about them but as you shared in your post if people would use them the right way like Angela recommends as well we wouldn't have issues.

  16. Scott - you are so right - if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right!

    TIP - set up your profile info in Roboform, then it's a snap to complete each profile form.
    Just Right mouse and select "fill forms" TA DAAA!

    If "fill form" does not work, can still just leave Roboform Identity open and copy/paste from it - much quicker than typing it all.

    PS This is not an affiliate plug for Roboform - I just find it useful. You could probably use LastPass.com (free) similarly.

  17. @Mark

    Wow wow, those are the kind of comments I really look for where I too can learn something new lol. :D

    You are right that "spam" is quite subjective in nature, but if the guys who run the fishing site are also the ones who delete the spammy profiles, perhaps they know what they are doing(or why would they have an authority site on the subject? ;) )

    BTW, One of your comments were in spam and another under moderation. I guess it was all because of a long post. But let that not stop you from posting nice comments, as I DO look into the spam box too ;)

    @Steve123

    Yeah, RB is what I use, and you can even download a free identity from here: http://arindamchakraborty.com/must-have-tool-for-backlinks-of-angela-and-paul

  18. Don't always worry about page rank when back-linking from a site. If the site ranks high in results for several dozen keywords, the 'link juice' Google gives you is more than what that site's page rank might indicate. (Little known fact, I have a client whose brother-in-law works for Google and let some things 'slip' last Thanksgiving. He once asked him a direct question and was met with silence as Google told him not to even tell is wife some stuff!) Lol.

    They are very hush-hush; but because people are always testing, that is why they keep changing the exact algorithms. (They changed the exact algorithm 7 times last February... that is every 4 days!) But there are some factors that though they are always changing the weight of, are and always will be of some weight; like how many keywords people type in that the site does rank for. That, most times does not enter into that page's PR equation, but DOES help pages that it links to! Strange and non-intuitive, but that is Google.

    And back-linking is not 'gaming' the system, Greg. Unless you are using automatic and arbitrary methods to do so. (I wish they would figure out how to stop the auto-bloggers and end that black-hat system. I have seen an auto-blogger site rank higher with stolen content than the poor blogger that wrote the original article and whose page is de-indexed for duplicate content because a 'blog' with more juice stole his or her work!) It is discussions like this that help the spirit of what Google is attempting more than hurting it.
    Mark

    1. Yeah Mark, you are soo right. Lately Google has been giving weight even to PR0 links. I guess the next thing black hatters would do is to start spamming all the PR0 sites! :D

  19. Great post Nuttie.
    I like your name, I use a lot of Alias names also. I like your Nutty Professor type of name. I am confused why people are buying the link system from Angela. Once I learned what she was doing I just searched in Google for sites with high pr that had a forum. Then you are not hitting sites that are inundated with Angela links. I would link to her though because she is pretty, even if she is married.

  20. @Salt Lake City

    Angela does the leg work to check that locations where she places the links are not NoFollow. That's worth a few bucks to me. Have you found any convenient DIY alternative?

    Sadly, so many people jumping on Angela's bandwagon that sites are reacting hard. Doubt most of those links are going to last long.

    Problem is that Google checks on links disappearing - treats as "Vote of No Confidence" and sanctions accordingly. Found that out the hard way after discontinuing a 3-way link subscription.

    However, world does not end with Google. MSN doesn't care if link drops. Experience with Yahoo inconclusive, but mildly encouraging.

  21. Good long post, Arindam. I don't have time right now to comment on everything I would like to. So I'll just ask one question, and then come back in a day or two:

    The way in which I discovered your blog was through Angela, since she gives your earlier post as a reference in her packets. So what does Angela think about your new ideas on using her backlinks sparingly? Have you made an enemy out of a friend?

    ---
    Professor

  22. I spent a couple of hours last night using Angela's newest finds. The first issue I never got to

    Then I remembered that someone posted articles about how to effectively use Angela's product. I found this page.

    Thanks Arindam!

    So, can I assume that putting links back to your niche websites is not the best way to do business? Would you recommend that we all use an "About" page to link to?

    I am confuse.

    greg

    1. >>can I assume that putting links back to your niche websites is not the best way to do business?

      Not sure what you mean by that. What I suggest is that you try to find sites that actually OFFER you a place to leave links (Angela said her October sites are just like that; I have not looked into them though)-like, say, the social bookmarking sites, or say, Hubpages (these r just examples).

      Second, for blog commenting and forum posting, it is a good idea to find sites related to YOUR niche. Like, if your niche is weight loss, find forums and sites on that topic (niche+forums, OR niche+blogs are search parameters you can use on Google to find them) and post there; if they r not enough, find health related sites too ;)

      Why? You get many advantages this way:

      a) You don't get labeled as a spammer.

      b) You not only get backlink but also traffic, subscribers, and even possibly JV partners. In other words you not only build traffic but also RELATIONSHIPS that may last much longer than traffic ;)

      c) Your links have more chances of staying. For me the stress of my links getting deleted a fortnight later is worse than doing this bit of hard work! :D

      I don't go into nofollow/dofollow discussion because that is just your choice. Personally I put comments even on nofollow sites (even several of Angela's backlinks are nofollow, if you check her site using backlinkwatch or yahoo explorer) because –

      They bring me traffic+Google gives some weight to nofollow sites these days+It is good to have a variety in link building ;)

      Now, if you want to focus only on dofollow link building that is up to you ;)

      About me pages are best, but if that is not an option, then you may use a freebie page or any other non-commercial page that is part of your website. If you spy on Angela you would notice that on many forums her links have stayed intact (because she uses her bio page and the goarticles page for her backlinks, none of which are commercial pages in the strict sense of the term) while others get a quite different treatment! ;)

      Apart from that, you can also buy the Backlinks 750 guide of Terry Kyle (if his wso is still up). Now don’t take everything he says at face value but overall it is a good guide! ;)

      You can also use Google's search operators to find backlink sites related to Angela's; that way, the links are exclusively yours! ;)

      http://www.googleguide.com/advanced_operators.html (this one perhaps need a bit more explanation so watch for it in a future article ;) )

      What I would also suggest is that categorize your backlinks into several broad niche categories, so that when you build a site on a specific niche, you know which backlink sites to go to. It saves you a lot of frustration down the road, though building the initial list is certainly painful! ;)

      Hope that clears the confusion ;)

  23. Matt Cutts says in one of the many videos he has done that the bots don't consider the nofollow links all the time. I suspect, that the bots do follow the no follow links and that where they lead is considered for search results. What the no follow was for was to HELP the bots not see a page that was on several ways for your customers to find it from seeing it as duplicate content.
    (EI: the nav bar, tags, categories, archives, etc.) Keep in mind, the bot may not follow, but it does read the address of where it is not going. ;)

    That that 'link' may not show up on a backlink search does not mean the fact that it is there, is not being included in the current algorithm.

    I think the bottom line is, if you do no evil, (at least have no evil intent) you will get what you deserve eventually.

    Speaking of evil...I'd like to see a post about the current glut of internet marketing that teaches internet marking. (Incestuous at best, huh?) Including the 'guru's that sell marketing information that is incomplete and in some cases actually designed to discourage the buyer from following through at the most vulnerable places in the process by mis-leading or leaving out crucial info! (According to a psychologist I showed some purchased 'systems' to that had a handle on IM already)
    Michael Fortin's wife, Sylvie (I think) wrote an ebook called 'Internet Marketing Sins' That tells how some 'do it' to their clients. In normal times, there is only so much of a market for selling to wanna be IMers, but in this economy, that market is flooded and if you don't think those 'gurus' that 'do it' to others don't 'do it' to newbies, you are just not paying attention. In my limited 6 months of trying to learn this stuff and after showing everything I bought relating to it, according to someone who should know, I was ripped off dollarwise 10 times to 1. No one talks much about it, but many who have just lost their jobs are getting shafted with money that they would be better off to spend on food for their families.
    I don't know the answer and being new, I am sure there are those that could (and would) make my life hell. I will never mention names, it has become easier to figure out who is 'evil' and who is not. (90% of those with pictures of cars, money, houses and pretty women, I bet) This is off subject, just something that 'gets' to me. Sorry,
    Mark

  24. Hiya Mark,

    I was waiting for your comments lol. I understand your frustration, and will try hard not to get on that "evil" list lol :D

    On a personal note, I would say that do not pay unnecessary attention either to what Matt Cutts or the IM gurus say. Think about it: both Google and those IM gurus are your competitors, and vice versa. Why would your competitors want YOU to succeed (in fact they would just want the opposite)?

    An eminent warrior was saying the other day that Cutts has been specifically hired by G to spread misinformation about their algo so that no one can ever fully grasp their actual algo. You would see that almost all of this articles and interviews are incomplete or open ended, leaving plenty of room for speculation. And that IS his aim! ;)

    I am subscribed to only a few gurus' lists, and that number keeps on decreasing regularly! I certainly read some of the emails but with an objective view (my aim is certainly to spy on these gurus than reading what they say). Why? I know at the end of the day, it does not matter if some guru earns 10 millions per month, or if he says that dofollow is good/nofollow is bad; what matters to me is the result of my own TEST!

  25. Arindam,

    I'm a new subscriber to your nuttie newsletter. Your thought's about Angel's list of high pr sites caught my attention. I've been using this automatic program called 'linking loophole' that creates yahoo email accounts and then subscribes to Angela's sites. It then posts to each of the accounts (automatically) with random name and birthday etc and places my keyword anchor text links to inner pages on my website. It then collects the urls of the pages where my links are where they are then converted into RSS feeds with html2rss. Another program in the same set of software then sends out the newly-created RSS to the big RSS aggregators. Whew!, that was a long explanation. In the program creator's opinion based on his testing and the seeming results from his subscribers, there seem not to be any bad results from setting up such links from Angela's sites. In fact, after an initial surge of page rank for the keywords in the anchor text to the website page optimized for the anchortext keyword, the page then disappears for awhile but within a week or two returns to nearly the same spot. Doing that also helps new pages of content on a website get indexed by google within hours.
    So after this long-winded explanation, what I am hearing from you is that these links that are created with Linking Loophole will be removed by someone at each of these sites if the links created in my profile going to my website pages are not relevant to the theme of the websites that Angela compiles each month. And thus, Google will then penalize my website pages because the links will be taken down. I hope I am understanding all this correctly.
    Therefore, I shouldn't use any automated software to set up these accounts for me unless the sites are relevant to my website pages. Do I have that all correct? If so, then if I happen to sell wellness products on a website that reviews and offers helpful info to people about great products BUT I am also a sports fan and a Democrat or I am interested in Science etc etc AND the high PR site in these categories asks me to fill out my profile including a website if I have one, then does it really matter if I put my website link in with my keyword anchortext?? Common sense tells me it wouldn't matter since I am not advertising my site to others on the forums and not writing spammy articles at the sites. If it doesn't matter to the site owner, then I assume I'm alright doing this type of automatic one-way link building from these high PR sites. Also, it seems that if keyword anchor text and link relevancy did matter and was frowned upon, these websites would not allow profile information to contain keyword anchortext links back to my website if it wasn't relevant. They do allow it however, which makes me think that it must be okay. In the short time I've been linking in this way, I've seen very good results in pr and traffic from pages that previously were not even indexed by Google (within a week or however long it takes for the google bots to go through the profile pages of these high pr websites).

    1. @Bruce: Hi Bruce (I think there is another Bruce on my list too),

      Since I have not used the software in question, it would probably be best to keep my mouth shut on that, lol. You see, I cannot really answer either "yes" or "no" without using the tool first.

      I am not a big fan of automation in seo btw. IMO, semi-automation is the way to go-be it for article submission, rss submission (in fact most rss directories force you to read captcha before you can submit your blog to them, and software cannot do it for you), social bookmarking (again, captcha poses a hurdle), etc.

      All I can say is that if you are indeed happy with your results six-eight months from now (I mean, in terms of ROI), then nothing like it! Again I personally suggest semi-automation or even better, zero-automation, in case of seo, because softwares, no matter how smart they maybe, can never replace the human brain! However, to each his own! ;)

      Also, "assumptions" are not always right (In fact, 90% of the times they are WRONG). RESULTS are what really matter! ;)

  26. Would it matter much if you don't use you keywords as anchor text and use your name? It would certainly appear more natural and less like spam. What if you use you name together with keywords but I suppose that would be too many words to look natural.

    1. @ManieE:
      >>Would it matter much if you don’t use you keywords as anchor text and use your name?

      My own tests show that anchor text keywords don't matter much because you would inevitably end up ranking for several keywords whether or not you have built links for them (as long as your site content has those keywords, that is)! I also had the odd experience of not ranking for one of the keywords that I used extensively as anchor text for building links to one of my sites! ;)

      Still, your own tests may bring up different results ;)

  27. Hi Arindam,
    Thanks for your quick response. The program I mentioned in my last post also automates the captcha process and does a fair job of getting most of them correct most of the time. If it misses, it tries again and skips the site if it exceeds a certain amount of time and then goes to the next site. I'll keep trying this for another month or so and see if my links get removed.

    Interesting topic though. I have often thought about just taking my time and filling out a complete profile on each of Angela's high PR sites when I have spare time (which is hardly ever btw).

    Thanks,

    Bruce

  28. Hi Bruce,

    That is great to know. Hopefully soon you will post your results here with a link to the tool (affiliate link is fine ;) ) so I too can exploit the "loophole" of Google until they get it fixed lol :D

    If too many people (ab)use the tool though then it may soon become as ineffective as the page generator tools which were once a big hit ;)

  29. Yeah, I often worry about people who may abuse the program. It hasn't seemed to happen yet but I haven't been using it long enough to know how long this will last. The developer allows only four keywords per 'run' and of course they are all connected to inner pages on the website(s).

    I've noticed an increase in traffic to my pages - especially after I submit the RSS feeds to the RSS aggregators that the html2RSS program does for me.

    I'll let you know if traffic keeps up

    Bruce

  30. Angela linking to GoArticles (or Squidoo or Hub, whatever) which onward links to her site is an example of a powerful technique called "chaining".

    Chaining has many advantages - crawling and link juice are forwarded pretty much intact if the origin has few outbound links other than to your own sites.

    Chaining can combine several tiers of onward linking.

    An advanced blackhatter will use thousands of expendable junk sites (often on kited domains) to forward spammed link juice and cloaked traffic to intermediate sites (preferably with authority like Squidoo, Hub, GoArticles etc) which in turn forward to the money sites.

    Links point upward from black to white; also sideways (same color) but never down. So when a junk site is rumbled (it always is in time) it is deindexed, but the money site stays clean, insulated and sanitized by the intermediate site.

    In the meantime, the money site benefits from the authority of the intermediate sites, the spammed link juice, and the cloaked traffic.

    I'm not suggesting anywone here try that route - quite apart from the ethical issues, it requires great skill, and massive software and hardware investment to implement and maintain.

    But the power and potential of "chaining" can be deployed totally white hat (like Angela is doing). And it is not limited to 2 stages.

    Chaining reamins a wide open opportunity because very few people have cottoned on to the potential, and eveb fewer have the organization and and motivation to implement.

  31. Google has a way of discovering the money site (I think they just follow the juice til it ends, just like Elliott Ness did to take down Al Capone). In no way is the money site safe. I know people that tried that and eventually the money sites where de-indexed BEFORE the junk and intermediate ones where!
    The latest craze is auto-blogging. Crap, soon the net will be nothing but bots posting contents for bots. "Oh the humanity of it all!"

    1. Mark how dare ya even mention the word "humanity"! Don't ya know it is an obsolete word in the dictionary of internet marketing! ;) (kidding)

      BTW, one of the biggest mistakes that of IMers of is trying to complicate simple matters, in the hope of either achieving quick shortcuts or finding the "missing" piece of the puzzle. Before they realize, they have been trapped in muck and the more they try to rescue themselves the deeper they would get trapped. Over time I have learned to to keep things simple and use my common sense-works for me though may not work for everyone! :D

      Some of the highest ranking sites in non-IM niches have crappy on-page seo. You would wonder how come such sites even be on first page of Google, but they are there nonetheless! :D

  32. @Arindam

    "I have learned to to keep things simple and use my common sense"

    Spot on Bro! Save you a stack of dough too.

    "Some of the highest ranking sites in non-IM niches have crappy on-page seo."

    Links+Links+Links. Off page factors account for at least 60% of keyword ranking variance.

    Google figures out most on-page factors for themselves now - contextually.

    I have statistical evidence suggesting that Google even penalises some traditional on-page optimisation.

    Better to forget it and try KISS instead.

    1. >>Google figures out most on-page factors for themselves now – contextually.

      Yeah, well actually that is what I was hinting at (smart guys think alike lol)! ;) Apart from the title tag, most other meta tags have become useless over time due to their extensive abuse by "spammasters" (spammers+webmasters)!

      Right here on this blog you will find me quoting it straight from Google that they don't consider meta description or meta keywords when indexing a page; rather they "extract" such info directly from the body of the content page. That is how the term "Google style extraction was born)!

      http://arindamchakraborty.com/search-engine-optimization-demystified-part-4

      Don't forget to read the rebuttal comment lol. Apparently such stuff stuff works for him ;)

    2. BTW, Googlebot has been staying on my blog since the beginning of October, lol :D This overzealous and constant attention of Google on a minuscule site is very unusual and alarming! I am smelling an imminent Google slap, for exposing all the "Google secrets"! :D (kidding)

  33. Mark, that's because some website owners don't like links...ANY links. Some websites (many forums are like this) think of you as a spammer if you leave any type of link at all. I usually have pretty good luck with my bio page, but I have been labeled a spammer for using it. And there isn't anything on the page to sell!! :/

  34. Wow, So much to learn. I liked mostly that you are showing how to use about me page. Good reference too. I read that WF thread and it was interesting. Will wait to read your backlink building success with this new strategy in coming post :-)

    Cheers Arindam! Great post :-)

  35. Bottom line I think is:
    If you write and structure for humans, (usability, findability, readability): They will come.

    If you can use words that work and others do not use, but have searches, in a natural way, you can rank for those small searches. Then word of mouth takes over IF you provide what humans need and/or want.

    I saw an 'ad' for an auto-blogger. Posts to 1000 blogs 5 times a day! Had examples. The examples were crap content scraped from Yahoo answers to make the site look like a question and answer site. All dup content and even if it is spun, it is just thievery in my book. Stealing from the people it draws, from, Yahoo and from any other IMers in that niche that is trying to do it right!

    That is what Google should be going after (in my estimation). There are literally thousands of crap auto blogs in the top 5 Google search results of many niches. They keep allowing that or don't find a way to eliminate that and some upstart search engine will and do what Google did... take the vast majority of search away from them like they did to Yahoo years ago.

    I just hope it is soon because auto-blogging disgusts me. It is so black hat but the purveyors of it think (it is only light gray (or so they say).

    (How do you feel spending hours on keyword research, building a site, providing good content, helping people find answers to their problems and making enough to feed your family and then one day the top 10 sites in your niche are all auto blogs from some ass who picked your niche to fill with 20-50 scraped auto-blogs and now you're on page 3 or 4 for most of the words you were in the top 5 results for page one before? Instead of feeding your family, you are back at step one while some guy is stealing your hard earned traffic in his sleep, while providing nothing! He may even be scraping YOUR CONTENT to be ranked above you!

    Thievery!

    Mar

    1. Hi Mark,

      RE: Autoblogging

      Again it boils down to a simple fact that a tool can be used and abused. A potentially good tool can become bad if it is abused by thousands of people, something that is happening with Angela's links, and has happened in the past with page generator tools, RSS bots, social bookmarking submitters, etc. Autoblogging is AND is not bad, depending on how you approach it.

      I have done auto blogging too! However, I did it through RSS feed syndication, which is completely legit as long as you give proper credit to the originating source. In fact some of the top news sites do nothing other than syndicating content from Google and BBC news through RSS feeds, and yet rank in top 10! If you have sharp eyes, you can find a few such sites in Angela's packets, and more if you search in Google! :)

      There is nothing illegal in it (unethical may be), not at least in my eyes (I am certainly no lawyer, mind you). Do you want to syndicate content from my blog to yours? You are more than welcome, as long as you give me proper credit! Hey, after all, that is what RSS is there for-helping fellow webmasters with content syndication!

      Problem however crops up when some scums want to bite the hand that feeds them-by not giving any credit to the originating source. It is no different than reprint article publishing-as long as you keep the author bio intact, it is perfectly legit, but when you remove it, you are a content thief! Problems are accentuated when the blackhatters present these seemingly "illegal" techniques as white hat and "legal" to unsuspecting newbies, and before they know it, they have also become a part of the blackhat industry!

      Forget about what Google can and cannot do to you, you would probably end up in prison for copyright infringement, which is 10k times worse than even the biggest Google penalty!

      And don’t tell me about dup content Mark - so many bigwigs are enjoying more attention from Google using reprint articles and RSS feeds than we are! In fact, there is not really anything called "dup content penalty" as Google and even I have clarified many times. It all happened when a certain marketer positioned this "theory" to pave the way for marketing his product which happened to be…you guessed it, an article spinner software! :D

      So what is dup content?

      Well, at its simplistic level: if you have a page containing:

      dog dog dog

      Google will take only one 'dog" and ignore the rest. No penalty, mind you. I know it is really an over-simplistic example, but that is it!

      In fact, Google applies this rule even to off-page factors such as backlinks-

      If you leave 3 backlinks on a single site and all of them point to same domain, Google will count just one backlink and ignore the rest.

      But again this is no "penalty". Like everyone else, Google too has to make sure it makes best use of its disk space (because diskspace and bandwidth don’t come cheap, at least not the quality ones), and that is why it has to clean out "duplicates" from its database all the times in doer to save space and maintain high-speed performance, much like we clean duplicate emails from our email lists, or optimize our WordPress database tables form time to time!

      More than auto blogging sites, the ones that completely p*ss me off are the auto-generated pages based on search keywords. Example: say you search for "Britney Spears" (without quotes). You would expect to find her bio, album reviews, etc. on first page, right? Well, yes only IF you are lucky.

      Many times I have stumbled upon sites that have zero content but the titles are so optimized with the search keyphrase that they rank higher on Google than the legit sites. A typical such site would go like this (assuming that your search keyword is "Britney Spears"):

      Title: Britney Spears-Discover more details, reviews about Britney Spears

      Meta Description: Ditto as title

      Meta keywords: Britney Spears, reviews

      Body: Ditto as Title

      Adsense ad goes here (again optimized per the search keyphrase)

      Sorry, no information is available on Britney Spears at this time. Please check back later!

      Are you pissed off? I sure am, but what is even more appalling is such sites rank on first page of Google (even though I am confident their average bounce rate is pretty high) while legit sites struggle on page 3. It all comes down to....

      Backlinks!

      I bet that same page would come up again on Google's first page even if you searched for a different keyword.

      I have the software to do all that, but I have never really done it and may never do either! I prefer to do better things with my limited time! :D

      There are WordPress plugins that you can use to achieve the same results, maybe with a bit of tweaking!

      As much as I say that content is king blah blah blah, I simply cannot ignore the fact that a large group of webmasters are making money by doing almost nothing-well, except building links!

      As for chaining, linking to authority sites have an advantage in that the links would get pulled down less frequently. Thus, you can use them effectively as your guinea pigs. The downside is that you have to do a bit of extra hard work.

      Phase 1: Take all Angela's backlinks, and build 2 links per profile. One of these links could point to an article site (say, an article you published on Goarticles, or Ezinearticles) and another to a Web 2.0 property like Squidoo, Hubpages, etc. Build and leave.

      Phase 2: Check back your work 2 weeks later. Some links would inevitably fail to work, but since you are linking to authority sites instead of your (affiliate) sites, the chances of deletions would be a bit less. Now go to all those sites that have kept your links intact, and just change the backlink URLs to point to YOUR money sites.

      Have I done it? Nope, but this is one method I read about in a :"black hat" forum! The people who are doing it are apparently very happy with the results but will it last long? Only time will tell it for sure!

      The long term strategy is still relationship building-if you are not joining a forum in order to contribute, then you could have nothing better to do than spamming that forum. Forums are more about relationship building, networking, etc., and less about link building. Just think about Warrior Forum. If you merely register at the site, make 1 post and have all links in your sig file, will you get as much benefit as you would as a prolific contributor?

      Blogs are safer than forums if you are not ready for relationship building, but again, your fate is controlled by the blog owner. If the blog owner does not approve your comment (aka, seo-ed name and spammy links), you don’t get a backlink!

      Anyway, just my 0.02 cents. Let the discussions coming. Don't let my Nuttie ramblings stop you! :D

  36. I must add I once build a test site containing nothing but "unchanged" plr artcles and adsense ads, and did no promotion at all. Even this site has got indexed in Google and earning me a little Adsense income! The site is perhaps 2 months old, or maybe a bit more than that! :D

    The site was actually built for a different project (rather than earning Adsense money), but that project never really took off.

  37. "I saw an ‘ad’ for an auto-blogger. Posts to 1000 blogs 5 times a day!" I agree with Mark, this is evil... Google should root this out, the same as Arindam's example of sites with rankings but no content. Syndication is good as long as there are links back to the source.

  38. Manie,

    If G really wants to "root this out", they should root out Adsense because this is the #1 cause behind these junk, spammy sites. People who don't know any better build junk MFA sites. This is the reason why WordPress.com banned Adsense sometime ago in a bid to stop spam and they have been successful!

    So as you can see Google is both the cause and cure of the problem. I do doubt they would discontinue Adsense program anytime soon. As long as they make billions from the Adwords advertsiers, they could care less about what we "web surfers" really feel! Yes, if another search engine such as Bing poses a formidable threat to Google's market share (I don't know when it will happen, or if it would ever happen) then big G might have to revamp its biz model to save its a**. Until then, we would continue to "suffer". ;)

  39. Maybe the advertisers will rise up! They are paying for of ads that will not produce business. If I land on one of these junk sites I leave, I don't click any ads.

  40. You would be surprised to know that many big corporates simply outsource their ad management to a "media manager" and neither track their ROI or anything (maybe they don't know how to do that, after all, not every coroporate guy is necessarily as smart as internet marketers ;) )! They have money to burn, so to speak, and Google knows that. They are Google's biggest revenue earners anyway; we internet marketers form just a tiny percentage of adwords advertisers!

    Yes I know the content network is junk, and don't ever buy ads on content networks because if you have a limited budget you would become a beggar before you know it! ;)

    BTW, in my comment I have given you a hint of a potential offline business model you can take advantage of. Can you spot it? :D

  41. >>Maybe doing companies Adwords campaigns for them?? Be the media manager aka Adwords expert…

    Yes, but a better, more "intelligent" expert. Your USP could be that of saving client's money instead of burning it as other media companies do! :D

    I told you that many of this corporate bigwigs don't track their ads. How do I know? Try clicking on all the Adwords ads you see on your search page, (for best results, open each ad in a new tab because if u hit the back and forward buttons you may see a different set of ads; not that it makes any difference other than confusing you) and see how many of them go to VALID pages. A mainstream niche is ideal for your test! ;)

    Next, compare all the VALID landing pages and see how many of them are "proper landing pages" (u know what I mean, right - seo, list building, quality score, etc.). You would know how many dollars these guys are losing each month without even knowing it! That is just one aspect. You can also help your clients achieve better ROI by offering them ad optimization tips, bidding tips, etc. If you position yourself as a media manager-cum-business advisor or whatever, you can make pretty good money :D

    And when you do make money, you should definitely buy me some beer bottles for giving u that tip! ;) (kidding)

  42. In your Brittany Spears example, the bounce rate is not any higher than anywhere else, because, the surfer is as likely to leave thru an adsense link or a paid search Google button on that page. No cause to alarm the bots!
    lol

    I agree, G starts it, them condemns it, but does little to do anything about it if it is to their benefit.

    They will de-index a small internet marketers page, as they rarely use adwords if they are good, and having a site with adsense is like carrying a leaky bucket unless you don't want to work enough to have content people are looking for on your site.

    They are less eager to de-index Coke-a-cola if they are spending a million or more in adwords a month! Or a small marketer making junk sites for adwords conversion. (Hard to have adsense clicked if you have already provided what they are looking for!

    I have a site, gives away PaintShop Pro 'Tubes' (images) or PSP Tubes for short. put adsense on it because all the ads where for play station (psp). THEN after they were done, enough surfers were play station players that they would exit thru adsense! But if all the ads were optimized for my product I was selling or affiliate for, I'd rather sell something for $30 than $.02 as they leave!

    I run an adwords account for a tiny medical doctor. I trade for free treatment. PPC is a whole different ballgame than SEO when keyword optimizing due to broad term bidding mostly. There are nuts out there that just throw money at a market, as well. You have to be very willing to continually test, test, test to keep ahead of them. You also have to be more attuned to a keywords with 'commercial intent' when it costs $10 a click! (and your landing page better convert high!)I pay over 300/mo in education on adwords alone just to stay even and in the game. If you decide to manage adwords for someone, you better make them pay. To do it right, you should be charging 2-4k up front for research alone and another 2-4K for set up. Otherwise, you are cheating yourself or them.

    Content network is not crap, it is just more work, but can yield better ROI! Up to 10 times as much if you are willing to test, test, test. I know a guy that pays .01 a click there with low bounce and high ROI. You never know. The fact that most people THINK it is crap helps. ;) With a little work, you can become king of the content network in almost any niche. (Notice I said 'work', that is why the CN is still so open. ;))

    1. @Mark E Thurston: Well, cr*p indeed can help you if you know what you are doing. Like some people make money even by spamming, and some from safelists (just another version of spam) ;-). In fact just above I gave you one example of a crap site which makes me a little adsense cash with ZERO promotion. Imagine if I had actually PROMOTED that site!!! The site is nothing extraordinary - just a bunch of junk plr articles that I did not even changed a bit (dup content, anyone, lol?) but if you are interested feel free to email me and I wud show it. Just don't want to show it here publicly because it is really cr*p ;)

      Adwords-the trick for content networks is to have total control over the sites you want to run your ads on, as well as the ad positions. I think Adwords have this option if you choose CPM. I am not 100% sure as it has been years since I have used them. Indeed Adwords is 1000s times more trickier than SEO. ;)

      For adsense, the better CTR your site has, the more you earn, and to have a high CTR, the number of pageviews should not be too high compared to the ad clicks. I use a third party software to limit adsense clicks and pageviews per visitor, and that works fairly okay, although installing the script itself is no fun, and may not work on all hosts! ;)

      Nice to chat with you, btw! You also write longy stuff like me! :D

  43. P.S, I might try that PSP stuff. You never know. As for content, let us see if it can be scraped from good ol' Wikipedia (kidding) ;)

    Now, is not being a bad guy so much fun lol :D

  44. I also want to do a few Adsense sites sometime, I have been reading all this stuff about guys (or girls) making a bunch of small niche Adsense sites and then makes a few dollars a day on each site. Maybe it could work....

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